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Idle Musing...

by Timer

Indulge me for a bit or feel free to ignore me:

There's a Twilight Zone episode where a criminal is murdered and finds himself in "Heaven," which is depicted as a lavish hotel.  There he finds an angel who informs him that his every need will be met.  Whatever he wants is his.

"I'd like to go gambling."

"Of course."

So the angel takes him to a casino.  The man starts playing, and he cannot lose.  Before long, he has more money than he knows what to do with.  He can have anything he wants.  Do anything he wants.  Have any woman he wants.  For a while this is fine, but soon he becomes bored of the endless winning.  Gets bored with everything and realizes that's all there is for eternity.  There's no challenge and no satisfaction in anything he does.  The angel suggested that he could arrange for some losses, but the man realized that's not the same because he would know the losses were arranged.

"Don't take this wrong," he says, "everything in Heaven has been great, but do you suppose I could go to the other place?"

The angel smiles.  "This is the other place."

There's something about this depiction of Hell that stuck with me.  And I realized you could even go deeper than that.  Let's say the man was more sophisticated, not a common thug seeking fortune, women, and fame.  Say the condemned man was a scholar seeking wisdom.  The angel leads him to this vast, endless library that contains all the collected knowledge in the universe.  Everything that could be known.  All of history, pre and post humanity, perfectly preserved.  Everything that could ever come to pass.  Everything that could only be theorized to exist, but actually doesn't. Every story ever written, every story never written, every thought ever sprung.

"I have all of eternity to learn everything here!" the scholar says with excitement.  He picks up the first book he can reach and opens it.  After reading a page, it dawns on him: "I've read this one before."

No matter, there are plenty of other books.  An absolutely incalculable amount of knowledge right at his fingertips.  He grabs another one.

"Strange... I've read this one too."

Another and another.  He picks them up only to realize he already knows their contents.  In fact, he could recite them each perfectly by memory.  Being outside of space and time, he's already read every book in the library a million times over.  He's already been there for eternity.  Has always been there, reading, but not learning.  All of forever laying before him with nothing new to learn aside from the final realization that he is in Hell.

And then I wonder... what is Heaven?

Setting aside whether I believe in God or the afterlife, the concept of Heaven eludes me.

"You will sit on a cloud and play a harp."

"You will be with God and be free of wants."

"You will get 72 virgins."

"You will become one with the vast cosmos."

"You will know nothing but joy."

"You will know everything."

etc.

Frankly, that all sounds boring.  Kinda like the Twilight Zone version of Hell.  Like, maybe fun for a few hundred years, but we're talking FOREVER here.  Of course, it's very hard to conceive of being outside of the material world.  Time won't mean anything.  End of time and beginning of time won't have a difference.  Space won't exist.

We have such wonderful, colorful depictions of Hell, yet Heaven remains a sort of vague "something nice."

What a hard sell that must be.

Viewed:	64 times
Added:	1 month, 3 weeks ago 27 Apr 2025 16:50 CEST

15 Comments on this Journal

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MystBunny

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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You ever watch "The Good Place"?

Timer

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ MystBunny

No, but I've seen the memes.

Interesting trivia: "The Good Place" was supposed to be the title of the pilot episode of Twilight Zone, but the story was deemed too dour by the execs. "Where is Everybody?" was used instead.

MystBunny

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ Timer

The Good Place is an interesting series, and I always appreciate a series that works to a conclusion rather than just working to get more seasons.

Timer

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ MystBunny

I've always liked Ted Danson, but I sorta let that one slide by.  I really don't watch television much anymore.  In fact, my TV has been broken for a year and I don't feel the need to replace it.  I have my cpu and that's enough.  TV just sits there on the wall because I don't have anything else to put there.

But an ending is nice.  When you're watching something and it never really concludes, that feels like a waste of time.  Sometimes a show does conclude, but it's done haphazardly or swiftly because because behind the scenes everyone knew the show wasn't getting renewed.  Then there are tons of threads that never get a payoff.  And some shows are written as if they expect to exist forever, then when they do get cancelled it simply stops abruptly with no conclusion at all.  I suppose that's why I prefer the older, episodic TV shows.  If if they are suddenly cancelled, the final episode still had a beginning/middle/end.
The rewatchability of the show remains because each episode is a self-contained story. Continuous plots always have the threat of cancellation hanging like a sword of Damocles, conversely they also risk the danger of concluding their story yet getting another season green-lit, forcing contrivances as to why we should still care about these character's journeys.

MystBunny

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ Timer

I grew up with the episodic stuff, and I wasn't really a fan of that style. It really didn't seem like anything was at stake and nothing would ever change when every episode ended in the exact same situation it began in. It also felt like a lot of episodes explored some interesting developments, but you knew those developments would go absolutely nowhere. I did like the old Looney Toons stuff though. Still do. The episodes were short, and also didn't follow any continuity rules whatsoever, so it never felt pointless. The large amount of characters and settings to choose from helped as well. Also sexy bun and coyote.

Yeah I don't use my TV for watching anything any more, and I can't use the streaming services, and don't intend to. It's only there for some old console games here and there, but I barely do those either.

Timer

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ MystBunny

A lot of the Looney Tunes stuff are masterpieces and invaluable pieces of Americana art.  Which makes it a shame how poorly WB has treated this intellectual property in recent years  (Coyote vs Acme is apparently brilliant and they tried to bury it as a tax write-off).  Now they're even talking about selling LT.  If you made a list of the 100 most iconic and recognizable characters in the world, probably 40 of them would be Looney Tunes characters.  Just sell that?  That's insane.

It depends on the writers and producers vision of the show, but a lot of episodic character do grow.  Notably most Star Trek:TNG characters were insufferably pompous in the first season, but became well-rounded in the following seasons.  Now a lot of that has to do with the actors finding the characters, but they are vastly different characters by the end of the series run.

Of course, Bart Simpson has been learning the same lessons over and over for (WTF? Really?) 36 years.

MystBunny

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ Timer

I never could get into Star Trek. Then I was spoiled on Babylon 5 and can't accept any less. hehe.

Timer

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ MystBunny

I never really got into Babylon 5. I don't know why. Seems right up my alley, but I just couldn't sit and watch it.

MystBunny

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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Edited 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Owner

@ Timer

Understandable. From what I've seen of Strazynski's work, his stories seem to take a bit to really get off the ground. But it is another series with a definitive conclusion.

beforethefall

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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I don't know why but that first bit about the Twilight Zone episode reminded me of a quote I heard somewhere.

"Sometimes the Devil allows people to live a life free of trouble, because he doesn't want them turning to God. His sin is like a jail cell except it's all nice and comfy and there doesn't seem to be any need to leave. The door's wide open, until one day time runs out, and the cell door slams shut. And suddenly it's too late."

I don't know if I really believe in the idea of hell and heaven as classically depicted by the Abrahamic religions, I feel like they exist as supernatural explanations of the places we put ourselves in our lives, based on what we focus upon and concern ourselves with. Devised by wise men indeed as a way to explain to uneducated masses the burdens of selfishness, guilt and conscience and the freedom and joy of community and collectivism.

A way to teach morality, to care for our fellow man, etc. All while dangling the threat of eternal damnation as the poo-on-a-stick used to motivate those who are less naturally inclined toward altruistic behaviors.

Maybe this doesn't follow the intent of your post, but you did get me thinking, at least.

I think if there were a 'heaven' or some form of conscious afterlife where 'you' go, it would manifest as freedom from limitation. You become your own God; free to explore this creation or make your own. This is where that infinite possibility of eternity lies; free of some 'gotcha' like the examples you give; just true omniscience and the ability to craft your own personal universe, or, possibly, share in a common vision with others who are in that place as well.

Or maybe, just maybe, you could decide to go back. Give 'er another spin, in another place, or another time. On Earth or elsewhere.

Who knows. Maybe our furry utopia is out there somewhere and just waiting for us to find it at the end of our days. :o) For now, we can't really know what lies in wait, so whatever gives you hope, maybe it's best to let it be that, or not think too hard about it. Keep moving forward, live your best life, and live it like it's your only one, because NOBODY gets out alive and NOBODY knows for sure where we're all headed.

Timer

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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@ beforethefall

There is a school of thought that the only reason we have this concept of Heaven/Hell is to convince ourselves that these evil people who seem to have everything and never get punished will get their just reward in the end.  If they never receive justice in this world they will find it waiting for them a billion-fold in the next world.

And yeah, I get that.  It feels like shit to see openly wicked people just keep on winning while good people get severely punished for the smallest of offenses.  So you make up a place in your mind where "yeah, that guy is gonna be Satan's bitch."

But then... why is it so damn hard to get into Heaven?  In one of my stories, the rather Machiavellian character of Valentine states: "Facilis descensus averno," clarifying that going to Hell is easy.  You can work toward it for your entire life and never be sure you'll make it to Heaven, but you know for damn sure when you're bound for Hell.  If it exists or not, you know when you deserve it.  To the point where it's freeing to admit it.  Embrace this world and all it has to offer, because the next world isn't going to give you anything.

Hence the reason evil continues.

Seems there has to be a better way to control the population, right?

Or maybe there isn't and this is the best we can do given the situation.

Exelbirth

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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Every time someone tries explaining the concept of heaven, all I can think is it sounds like a hellish existence. Free of want? So everything will be given to you and you'll never struggle for it, making the enjoyment of everything hollow eventually, or worse, you are literally stripped of the desire to want things. Endlessly joyful? So what, I'm never going to feel sorrow for the people and life I left behind? You robbing me of that? Erasing part of who I am to be some sick puppet that only looks like who I was, but will never be me?

It's such an empty concept, and it's supposed to give comfort, but insisting on its existence just makes living feel meaningless and hollow in comparison. Like, the maybe century you have is just a waste of time, especially if the deity allegedly running everything knows the future of every living thing ever born, could just cut out the middle man and put everyone where they belong straight away.

Timer

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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Edited 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Owner

@ Exelbirth

I think part of the concept is that you'll be with your loved ones forever, you don't leave them behind.  Unless they go to Hell, I guess.  Or maybe in that case there will be a simulacrum of them in Heaven for you to be with?  Although that would mean almost every evil person in existence will have a simulacrum there.  "Oh, yeah... um... Hitler is right over there.  Turns out his grandma got into heaven and... well... you know.  Sooo, yeeaah... don't engage with him.  It's just better that way."

Funny thing is that (I'm not sure how true this is, but I'll share it anyway) early Christianity was so good at selling the concept of Heaven that many sects had basically become suicide cults.  The Catholic church was like:  "Whoa!  Whoa!  Guys!  Hol' up! That's a sin!  That's like [scribbles in bible] the WORST sin!  Says so right here."  I kinda wonder if what they considered Heaven to be was way better than what we consider it, or if it was just that life sucked so hard Heaven sounded great in comparison no matter what.

If you want to see a hellish version of Heaven, check out "What Dreams May Come."  Man, that movie is ugly.

Timer

1 month, 3 weeks ago

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Edited 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Owner

@ Timer

Now I'm thinking about people in Heaven having conjugal visits with their loved ones in Hell.

Exelbirth

1 month, 2 weeks ago

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@ Timer

From my admittedly limited research (hearing other people talk about history and stuff), the concept of what "heaven" is constantly changes across society and time, and has largely to do with what that society struggles with. Place with a lack of food tends to describe heaven as abundant with it, place that's impoverished describes it as a place where you're never wanting, place with a lot of conflict describes it as free of violence, etc. It's just "whatever is bad, heaven is the opposite of that." Hell, I saw some televangelist in the past couple years, who laments people "lacking work ethic," describing heaven as a place of endless labor.

But yeah, that suicide thing ended up being a bit problematic. Honestly surprised it's not more of a problem again, since that Jesus guy supposedly died for every single sin, and people preach that all you need is belief to go to heaven, so logically that should mean the most ardent believes should have a free instant heaven pass

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